Art Historians Unite!'s topics - tribe.net

Need Help With a Work's Title and Who The Artists Are

2008-06-12T10:07:14Z

There used to be a picture of a work in The Art Book by Phaidon, which I must have the new edition for, that depicted an installation of a sculptural work of an older man in white underwear sitting on a bed in a small room with a mirror and a window out to I believe NYC. You get the impression of old age and loneliness. Can anyone remember the name of this piece and who the artists, I know they were a husband and wife team, were? Thank you.

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Ship paintings

2008-05-22T08:47:35Z

Does anyone know a good museum in western Europe for paintings of ships, 1600-1900, or of a good website for this?

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Holograms Bring the Mona Lisa to Life

2008-03-18T23:18:08Z

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6d9_1205859199

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Please visit my new website.

2007-09-23T07:57:39Z

http://web.mac.com/savioni/Site/Photos.html

This site contains images represening my series "Urban Reflections."

Please tell me what you think. Thank you.

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Has Photography lost its function to the Internet?

2007-09-23T07:54:17Z

In a recent article/interview in Whitewall Magazine, Thomas Struth states that:

"Maybe photography has more or less lost its function, or its credibility in a certain way. There might be another two or three decades during which the whole course of practice can be reformulated in a different, more expansive mode.”

He said that just as painting lost its function to photography, photography lost its function to the Internet. Here is my response as a letter to Whitewall Magazine and to the Interviewer Gil Blank.

It would be best to consult the complete article as the abbreviated version, on-line, does not mention the quote nor flesh out the complex relationship of his assertion of photography's loss until later in printed article.

As I will be sending my letter soon, if you would like to add to or counter my assertion, please do so soon and I will include your comments. If you would like anonymity, please send your name and associated comments via e-mail.

Anyway, here's the letter:

Gil Blank
C/o Whitewall Magazine
135 William Street, #813
New York, NY 10038

Re: “The Tower and the View”

Dear Mr. Blank,

In this letter, I am responding to Thomas Struth’s statement in the Summer 2007 issue.

Struth said: “Maybe photography has more or less lost its function, or its credibility in a certain way. There might be another two or three decades during which the whole course of practice can be reformulated in a different, more expansive mode.”

Roughly translated, given the context of Struth's statement, he means: The function of a painting is to the function of a photograph as a function of a photograph is to the function of the Internet.

The function of a painting is to depict “The moment that looks before and after, gathering up all the past and indicating the eternal future—the moment when good is forever affirmed to be life, and evil, death. Thus the painting gathers up and expresses the whole range of ethical and religious conceptions of mediaeval Christianity, [for example] and is a fitting conclusion to the majestic interpretation of human history unrolled on the ceiling of the chapel by the same master hand.” - From: “The Meaning And Function Of Painting,” 1913, See: http://www.oldandsold.com/articles28/art-philosophy-10.shtml

The function of a photograph could be the same as the painting.

The function of the Internet is more than one moment. It is more like the world, another dimension, which does not negate photography’s function, because like the Internet, snap shots of it’s reality on the visual plane are equal given the independency on the media of the portrayed image. Since photography is a mirror of life through a lens, a copy of reality, this is also what the Internet does.

They don’t compete. The relationship is symbiotic.

Sincerely,

Mario Savioni
Walnut Creek, CA

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 2 replies

X-rays

2007-09-07T18:44:01Z

Suppose one wanted to get a painting x-rayed to reveal underpainting, etc., but did not work at a major museum or university. How does one get access to the necessary equipment and expertise? I assume that the x-ray equipment is not the same as that used in doctors' offices -- am I wrong?

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Ribera or Carvaggio?

2007-08-23T10:59:37Z

Who do you like more? And why? What are your fav Baroque painters or painting?

New to the site.....I'm not a historian...just a fine art student in Florence studying a Baroque style of painting (eventually once I finish drawing in charcoal in another year I hope).....I want to learn more about art history and explore the past to learn from to paint in the future..

ciao
-teadrinkinggirl

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 21 replies

Women In Art

2007-06-10T18:04:01Z

500 years of female portraits in Western art condensed in a three minute
morphing video.

http://www.devilducky.com/media/62379/

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The Volcano Lover

2007-03-18T08:50:53Z

Just finished an amazing novel by Susan Sontag--The Volcano Lover--set in 18th century Naples. Really rich stuff...intertwines art into the story but not in the standard way. Sontag has this way of interacting with the reader and intertwining Enlightenment philosophy with comentary on today. Historical love triangle of Lord Nelson, the British Ambassador and his wife, but really much more than that.

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finally I found it -

2007-03-14T11:27:24Z

a tribe for aficianados of art history...

But is it DEAD?! Oh NO!

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 6 replies

Studying Art History Abroad

2006-12-04T23:59:29Z

I'm looking at doing an exchange program in Europe. I was thinking about Leiden University in Holland or a university in Paris. Any suggestions or recomendations? I would love to do a semester or 2 in Chicago or NY as well but I don't think that's an option at my Uni (UBC). Oh well.

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Mughal India

2006-11-03T01:55:44Z

I'm trying to come up with a plan for an Art History paper and I'm having a few troubles. I'm trying to concentrate on European travel accounts of Mughal India. First, I need to show some sort of impact these travelers had on European and/or Indian culture. Second, I need to be able to do that in a visual culture context by drawing on images of some sort. I can't find any images that would directly relate to European travel accounts. Some drawings or paintings by European artists of Mughal Indian people or places would be so helpfull but I can't seem to find any. I know that they have to be out there somewhere and, like a dork, I have no idea where to find them. I was thinking about doing a bit about the European workshops in India, their impact and the impact of the goods produced on Europe. I'd be open to other suggestions though. At this point anything would be helpful. Not sure if anyone can help since this is a pretty obscure subject but I thought I'd try.

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Reading Painting Left to Right

2006-10-02T13:37:53Z

I'm looking for any literature that makes either broad or specific claims for reading Western painting (narrative painting or any painting) from left to right.

Any suggestions?

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I'd like to introduce myself

2006-03-07T20:39:14Z

*******I've removed the citation and referances to figures********
*******I've removed the Introduction******
*******The images are in the photo album****
*******This is the Melun Diptych*******

Tracked to works throughout Europe in the 15th century, the French painter, Jean Fouquet, has been one of the most influential artists of his age. Notably, his art has been correlated to have a huge impact on modern artist to the point of foreshadowing them. His use of creating forms that we in turn would connect with our minds foreshadows artist like Watteau and other 18th century impressionist. Even seen in modern-day constructivist sculpture where Fouquet’s Virgin and Child (from the Melun Diptych) is the precedent, but Fouquet’s skills were far from ambiguous (which my previous statement may lead you to believe). Fouquet was the first French painter to be infamous outside his own country. Nor did he stay inside his own country. When centralized recognizing that France was the artistic center of the continent had changed (not in France’s favor), Fouquet traveled to Italy during 1443-1447 and later would travel to Florence and Venice. During these trips, he would master the various styles of these areas before returning to France.

However, it must also be known that his major influence is that of the medieval theater. “The action took place in various compartments […] each compartment was composed of two or three platforms […] sometimes hung with detached place cards”. Through this, we can gather that his knowledge and love of the theater has a huge impact on the way he worked and on the piece in this discussion, The Melun Diptych (segmented into two pieces.) Fouquet’s art is far from happy scenes (like that of the Limbourg Brothers in their Les Riches Heures du Duke de Berry). Fouquet’s work was always of a somber tone. As in the Melun Diptych, the characters tell a dramatic story that is set in quiet specter and historical tragedy.

At this time, in Europe, prevailing waves struck the art communities and soon, Fouquet, would travel and master these techniques that would contribute to our subject, the Altar of Melun. In Florence, Italy, the Early Renaissance had been developing mathematically and scientifically use of one point perceptive and defining idealized forms within space. And in Flanders, artists like Van Eyck and Van Der Weyden were forerunners in a new and rich painting styles that concentrated light on forms and provided higher humanized characteristics to their forms. It is not known when Fouquet had traveled to learn from the Flemish master, but we do know after mastering this style, Jean had traveled to Florence and Venice to learn from others. After returning from Rome, where he painted a portrait of Pope Eugene, he brought these skills back to France and translated them into a northern style (as well continuing Gothic tradition). Mastery of these two styles is evident in this diptych.

Deeper elements to this diptych have to do with the angular arrangement and formatting of the picture plane and the figures in space. Noticeable, the figures in the panels are composed to relate with each other. The spacing between them along with the line of sight is along the same line, they both begin with the same horizon line – utilized to connect the two section. Chevalier’s line of sight (past the virgin) allows the viewer to connect the two sections with this technique. But more so, this is reciprocated with the Christ child gesturing back to the other panel.

The question still remains as to why this devotional piece actually came into existence. When Fouquet returned from Italy, it was Etienne Chevalier who became Fouquet’s patron. His duty was to create a so-called “altarpiece” that preserved the late Agnes Sorel’s memory - which later would be donated to church in Melun.

Etienne Chevalier was born in Melun around 1410. Upon taking over his father’s titles after his death, he began to rise to diplomatic height under King Charles VII. His titles were many. He would celebrate the titles of High Constable, Seigneur de Vineau, Plessis-le-comte, High Secretary to Charles VII, Ambassador to Italy and France, and later in 1452, Trésorier de France.
We see Chevalier in the left-hand panel of the Diptych. Quietly kneeling with his hands clasped in prayer and adoration, he, the patron, kneels in witness of the virgin and child. Beside him is his patrol Saint, Saint Stephen. Saint Stephen was a martyr. In his arm one can see the book of scriptures (to identify him with sainthood) with a stone sitting on top.

Saint Stephen explained through the Bible’s Acts of the Apostles and Voragine The Golden Legend explains his martyrdom: He was considered an example of a good life. He was considered a man of the people, for the people. His nature was that of grace and kindness. However when he was brought before the Jews, they tried to prove him to be contrary to their (Jewish) laws. But his heart was true and all accusations false. This did not stop the people from taking his life… by stoning. What is the connection with the stone and the diptych? There is substantial relevance to the right-hand panel and what she signifies as a martyr. All of these issues will be covered in due time.

The Left-hand panel holds an image of the lactating virgin with the Christ child. Fouquet utilized further iconography whereas the Theotocos (god barer) is viewed within a throne surrounded by angels. Throughout earlier times (around 1370 by Paolo di Giovanni Fei and others,) this has been used when depicting Madonna. Significance of this throne is to announce her as the queen of heaven. She also wears a crown of eight stars. This particular icon is to both show her place in Heaven as well as present her as royalty. The angels that surround her are references to night and day.

The image of the lactating virgin is perhaps one of the most interesting iconography. When first emerged, there were fears of causing lustful thoughts. Thus artists de-natured her to suggest that she is a symbolic icon, as well as emplying her mortality and the mortality of the child. Obvious in this particular work is that her breast is abnormally placed – this separates her from naturalized imagery. The exposed flesh offers further meaning, that of martyrdom. Martyrs were stripped to “humiliate torture, and punishment.” However, this may not be the case in this depiction, her depiction is not made to be a humiliation - but an adoration. This is a religious piece. In religious pieces the significance of the bare breast has been referred to as the Madonna of Humility. This is to say that she is the mother of all – another reference to Agnes’s nature as a kind pious lady. Further the Madonna of Humility was a reference to enduring of “man’s” sins and salvation through her suffering. Hence the message of the lactating virgin: “Dearest Son, because of the milk I gave you, have mercy on them.” And through this by her breast-feeding she gives nourishment of faith.

Agnes Sorel being a living person and the Madonna being a serious, sacred icon, why was this one modeled after Agnes? Also, was this virgin really a virgin? If not, why would she be the living model? Agnes Sorel was the mistress of King Charles VII. Indeed she was not a virgin. Sorel had birthed four children: Marie de Valois, Charlotte and Jeanne de France, and the fourth (stillborn). Perhaps she was modeled due to the reputation of her nature. She was viewed as a kind, pious, loving lady. Besides her fidelity to Charles, she was spied upon continuously with suspicion and jealousy – hence her correlation with Saint Stephen. Even more interesting was her relationship to Etienne. There seemed to be one other love in Sorel’s life, it was Etienne. Knighted by the king, Etienne was devoted to Charles; however, Chevalier was obsessed with Agnes – even beyond his wife’s death in 1452. It was found that the shield of Chevalier had been inscribed, “tant elle vaut celle pour qui je meurs.” This translates to “So much she is worth dying for.” More so, at Chevalier’s mansion, after moving to Paris, an inscription was found, “ Rien Sur L n’a regard,” Sur L being Sorel, translates as “too much not to see [Sorel]”. Fittingly, Etienne was one of the persons charged to execute her final will.

But what of her will? What of her death? Delivering a daughter on February 9th 1450 she suffered an attack of dysentery. She did die that day but dysentery did not kill her. Agnes was poisoned. Her murderer was a steward. The report came from Jeanne de Vendôm. The poisoner was one of the two executioners of her will, M. Jacques Coeur. He was found guilty and sentenced to death.

More fitting, we can see how the two pieces relate to each other. The idea of the patron being in the artwork is continued, yet there is more to these models than patron and Madonna. Etienne is in witness to Agnes Sorel, more so, Saint Stephen is the witness to Agnes’s soul. Further, at Etienne’s final resting place (Melun,) is where the devotional piece was donated

Strangely enough, “Etienne” when translated into the English language is “Stephen.” This is where further analyzing of this work comes into play. What further analysis can be made based upon this new knowledge? One is that the appearance of Saint Stephen gives further implications of her martyrism. And seeing the Christ child gesturing to Saint Stephen implies more of a connection (FIG. 7). As previously mentioned, Chevalier’s glance runs beyond Agnes’s – but St. Stephen is in complete witness and the gesture of the child connects back at St. Stephen. This along with knowledge of his martyrdom, illustrates Agnes’s role.

Now separated into two locations – Etienne and St. Stephen in Berlin and The Virgin and Child in Antwerp, this dramatic piece of history cannot speak together how it was intended. The Virgin and Child panel has been renamed The Antwerp Madonna. Although separate, the Antwerp Madonna still touches the heart of many people. She has continued to be the prototype for many artist: François Clouet’s Maîtresse au bain, Sabina Poppaea, Mignard’s Maria Mancini, even to Ingres’ Belle Zélie. The Diptych of Melun was a devotional piece that was adored in the loving name, not of the Mother of Christ, but Agnes Sorel – yet in a museum (as only ½ of it’s intent) it is simply a work of art with a lost story.

It is suggested that there is a missing panel - where Etienne is peering at the missing panel. Although no third panel has ever been found. It is also speculated that the two panels do NOT belong together. It is not my task to debunk this piece, I have only tried to explain the significance of what is seen and unseen as the pieces are. The facts remain along with much speculation. This stillborn child along with Agnes died on February 9th 1450 from poisoning. Her name had always remained clean throughout the accusations that were made. What also comes up is that this Diptych cannot be an altarpiece in which Agnes Sorel is depicted as the Virgin Mary – but is devotional.

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Oh man!

2006-02-25T20:13:10Z

How much does it suck to be this guy?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2006-01-30-museum-mishap_x.htm

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anyone going to CAA?

2006-02-14T16:13:11Z

I'm heading to Boston next week for the CAA conference. Anyone else? Might be fun to grab a coffee or something all together.

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ADVICE NEEDED

2006-02-08T22:01:26Z

Hello, I'm a student at a college that lets students design their own degree. I'm interested in working in a gallery or a museum and want some advice on what classes I should take. I alread know that art history is a must, I'm also taking some management coarses. What other important coarses what you suggest I take? Or, better yet, if you work in a gallery or museum, and you were hiring an assistant manager or director, what qualities, background, knowledge, would you be looking for in a possible candidate?

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 31 replies

Art and War 1840-1940

2006-01-30T05:16:12Z

I was hoping someone could help me think of some art work from between 1840-1940 that deals with war. I'm writing a paper and so far I've come up with Picasso's Guernica and a few German expressionist prints. I'm not sure what my focus is going to be yet. It all depends on what I find. I should probably either pick one specific time period or one country. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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New photographic art history tribe

2005-12-17T19:58:04Z

For those who like to discuss:

http://tribes.tribe.net/photoaesthetics

A tribe for discussion of their or other photographer's vision in what they devise criterias for one's own work. Although there are plenty of subjects on the technical aspects of photography, very little is written on this subject with the exception of A.D. Coleman and Susan Sontag.

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Can anyone help?

2005-12-15T21:48:00Z

For about a year now I've been trying to find a picture I saw a few years ago!

It's a group of either 5 or seven men. At least two are sitting at a table. There is a document, either held by one of the men sitting or on the table. But the memorable thing about the picture was the light. On the table ( I think) was a candle which was the only illumination, but beautifuuly painted as it caught the faces. For some reason I think the picture is something to do with a plot or conspiracy.

Can anyone think who might have painted it, or if they can point me in the right direction to find it?

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 28 replies

Stage reading about the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood, 12/5/05

2005-11-27T02:56:43Z

Because sometimes artists are as interesting as their artwork...

I've got a stage reading next month at the Magic Theatre in San Francisco that might interest those who are already familiar with the history of the play's protagonists.

Red House is about the intertwined marriages of the Rossettis, the Morrises, and the Burne-Joneses- as viewed from the perspective of Burne-Jones' wife and biographer, Georgiana.

The details are in the Events calendar, or you can contact me directly for further info. Those in the SF Bay Area this December 5th are invited to attend!

Sincerely yours,

Ignacio
ignaciointerface.blogspot.com

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New tribe member

2005-11-17T14:24:55Z

I am a part of a tribe called "People that still beleive in love". So recently the mediator wanted images uploaded. I thought about it and contributed these:

Allegory of the outbreak of war

Raft of the medusa

Beta Beatrix, Rosetti

Burial of Atala

Laocoon

The diptych of Melun (Agnes Sorel's panel)

After reflecting on those choices for a while, I decided to look for an art history tribe. I am SO glad to see there is one! I'm also very excited to engage in this forum.

:)

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 6 replies

How do art art historians deal with Po-Mo?

2005-10-06T16:11:24Z

Do you concieve of it as a true thrust away from Modernism or do you view it as an extension of the modern? Has there really been a collapse of history?

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 3 replies

Can you help with an artists name that has slipped my mind?

2005-10-03T09:14:26Z

I saw this artist last year 18/12/04 in London and I think it was at the Gagosian gallery.

I think the guy was Irish (don't remember if he was north or south) and it was a video peice of looking out of his window in his house over a year. Watching kids play in an open water hydrant, vandals, old ladies shuffeling past all set to music of various kinds.

I did write his name down but have lost the paper, my emails from that time are cleared and I can't see his name on the Gagosian website. Its a long shot but I don't suppose anyone knows who I'm talking about?

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 9 replies

Ideal Armchair historians website:

2005-10-02T02:28:48Z

www.bestinhistorysites.net

"As George Sanayana famously said," Those who cannot remember the past are destined to repeat it." However, it's equally true that finding good quality history sites online can be an arduous task best forgotten." This site picks out 1 000 online history resources and lists them by category, as well as providing great search tools.

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 3 replies

Do u know Ciurlionis?

2005-09-16T14:24:47Z

Mikalojus Konstantinas Čiurlionis (September 10 (September 22, New Style), 1875 in Varėna - March 28 (April 10, New Style), 1911 in Pustelnik near Warsaw) was a Lithuanian painter and composer. During his short life he created about 200 pieces of music and painted about 300 paintings. Most of his paintings are collected in the National Museum of M.K.Čiurlionis, Kaunas, Lithuania. His works have been of profound influence on the modern Lithuanian culture.
In 1878 his family moved to Druskininkai. Čiurlionis studied piano and composition at the Warsaw Conservatoire (1894-1899), later he attended composition lectures at the Leipzig Conservatoire (1901-1902) and studied drawing at the Warsaw School of Fine Arts (1904-1906).
He was one of the initiators and a participant of the First Exhibition of Lithuanian Art that took place in Vilnius in 1907. Soon after this event the Lithuanian Union of Arts was founded, Čiurlionis being one of its 19 members.
His symphonic poems In the Forest and The Sea have been performed only after his death.
Čiurlionis' name has been given to cliffs in the Franz Josef Land, a peak in the Pamir Mountains and asteroid #2420. In 1957 the Lithuanians' community in Chicago opened the Čiurlionis Art Gallery, hosting exhibitions of Lithuanian painters' works. National M.K.Čiurlionis School of Arts was founded in Vilnius in 1945. Čiurlionis String Quartet performs in Lithuania and abroad. Every several years junior performers from Lithuania and neighbouring countries take part in Čiurlionis Competition.

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Please help St. Brigid's

2005-09-01T22:13:39Z

I have heard recently that St. Brigid's will be sold to the Academy of Art University. The website [below] mentions demolition.

I am not catholic, but the parishoners are the ones who raised the money to build this church and I believe that they should have the right to worship there and see the artful fruits of their donations.

It is my opinion that the catholic church is selling it to punish those who have brought claims of child abuse against the church.

Political issues asside, this church is really beautiful and has statuary and stained glass that should be preserved as is. If you would like to see the church preserved, please visit the website below.

http://www.st-brigid.org/

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 1 reply

Anyone actually paint, sculpt, whatever?

2005-08-21T15:53:23Z

I had a prof. once tell me that he was one of a kind because he was both an artist AND and art hsitorian. According to him, the two never mix and I found that out, at least in my school since I was the one of the few AH majors that liked to do both. Firenze mentioned on another thread that she paints (and is quite good, btw), so I was wondering how often the rest of you get to actually DO what you love as well as study it?

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 10 replies

$10b art collection AKA Those wacky French billionaires...

2005-06-13T02:17:51Z

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1504736,00.html

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 1 reply

Two New Discoveries: La Tour and Munch

2005-06-04T19:46:39Z

New discoveries of previously unknown paintings by major artists were announced this week.

In Madrid, the Prado and the Instituto Cervantes announced the discovery of an unknown painting of Saint Jerome reading a letter by 17th-century French artist Georges de La Tour: http://www.artdaily.com/section/news/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=13885

In Bremen, restorers at the local Kunsthalle discovered an unknown work by Norwegian artist Edvard Munch while working on Munch's painting entitled 'The Dead Mother'. The second canvas, hidden beneath the aforementioned painting, depicts a naked adolescent girl sitting slumped in a chair while three enormous mask-like disembodied heads look down at her. The museum has (oh so imaginatively!) titled this 'Girl and Three Heads of Men' and dated it 1898. Art historian Barbara Nierhoff speculates that Munch may have laid 'The Dead Mother' atop this painting simply because he didn't have another frame. http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=817416

Both newly discovered paintings are unsigned and attributions have been made based on style and technique.

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The Bowl is Already Broken

2005-05-23T11:29:30Z

Has anybody read "The Bowl is Already Broken" by Mary Kay Zuravleff? The plot centers around a museum of Asian art in DC and a priceless Chinese porcelain bowl that gets dropped. I've just started, and it's very entertaining -- a nice send-up of the art history/museum culture.

http://www.marykayzuravleff.com/

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art hoax hits British Museum

2005-05-23T02:54:08Z

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/4563751.stm

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 5 replies

Laocoon by Michelangelo?

2005-04-30T23:06:01Z

A new article in the NYT reports on an article by a Columbia U. prof. who thinks the Laocoon might actually be by Michelangelo. I'm tracking down her article, but here is the NYT one:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/18/arts/design/18laoc.html?pagewanted=print&position=

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 4 replies

Do art critics still matter?

2005-04-29T22:29:19Z

http://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/article.asp?idart=11759

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 5 replies

Working in the world of art history?

2005-04-18T01:34:31Z

Just curious. If you are, what do you do? Do you have a degree?

I came close to getting a degree, but went a different direction. I'm happy with my choice, but I do miss my art history!

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 9 replies

Do you recommend Art History as a major?

2005-04-17T03:51:07Z

Right now I am at a cross roads in my college career. I''ve changed my majors two times already, and I think I may change it again. My first major was Visual Arts and I got a AAS in it. Then I went to a four year school, I decided I wanted to major in Biology. While persuing my degree in Biology I took an Art History coarse, and I loved it. I took some time off of school because of personal reasons. Now I am ready to go back to school, but i am not sure if I want to continue with Biology. I think I may want to persue Art History. What kind of jobs can you get with an Art History major? Are they well paying? Do you have to travel?

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 4 replies

Why are big museums so scared to specialize?

2005-04-15T16:21:23Z

Seems like the more large to mid-sized museums I visit, the more I notice most of the recent stuff they've been buying are not-so-great works by big artists. Some of these places have amazing older collections of extremely high quality lesser-known schools, and they don't seem to be concerned about building those up at all.

Maybe it's just me, but every time I've been in a new museum lately, I feel like I'm in the SAME homogenous museum.

Are curators really that worried that if they concentrate on a certain period, that period is going to fall out of favor some day or attract less visitors?
Why this mania to have one of everything?

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 9 replies

Tzvetan Todorov

2005-02-18T10:15:30Z

Hi, I'm just wondering if anyone in the states has had this book as part of an art history course, or used it in teaching art history, or if Todorov is even read at all in the US by art historians...

Todorov 2000 : Todorov, T., Éloge de l'individu : essai sur la peinture flamande de la Renaissance, Paris : A. Biro, 2000.

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 2 replies

Art and Censorship

2005-02-07T22:18:39Z

I was having a discussion in my 20 c. Contemporary Art course about this subject. We were talking about Maplethorpe photographs mostly, but the subject also carried into Serrano's Piss Christ and similar artists that have had problems with censorship.

How far do you think an artist should go before it goes from art to bad taste or shock value?

Should graphic art be on display to any public eyes in a museum, or do you think it might be fitting to somehow seclude it from people who may be offended or from children?

Should the government have any hand in any of this whether it be something as small as grants or something larger such as censoring artists?

And finally, should artists be allowed to display children or the mentally handicapped in suggestive situations?

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 12 replies

mynd if i change his-story for you?

2005-02-07T16:36:50Z

Do you want proof that “they” killed Abraham Lincoln?

Do you know that “they” used all the knowledge of the world and then set in to destroy the people who founded their rites? They use all the sciences of the world, and all the religions, destroying every person that they propagated the information or sacred knowledge from.

Do you want proof that "they" are going to kill your soul through playing the HAARP?

Do you wonder why zombies are becoming your best friends?

Do you have control of your “self”?

Who told you that?

It’s all arriving before they knew it, we knew what they didn’t want us to know.

Do you need proof that “they” know what they are doing and have always known what they are doing?

http://lovechao.tribe.net

Please understand that i am not afraid or crazy, you wouldn't believe how good it feels to know the history of the world, yes it is scary, but fear is how they get you, and we the people are not afraid.

The men and women of the illui-ma-naughty are at the end of their wick.

The winds are in agreement.

Read, love and conquer.

ADD it UP to SUBTRACT it DOWN.

> --------------Listing Contents-------------- <

> OH MY GOD !!!FWD!!! How can things CHANGE?!?!
>
> ADD it UP to SUBTRACT it DOWN.
>
> “It does not require a majority to prevail,
> but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen to
> set brush fires in people ’s minds. ”
> —
> Samuel Adams
>
> Find the books "they" don't want you to know
> about.
> They are out there, they are a group based on
> Fear.
> Remember they are like an octopus.
> They do not lie but will get people to lie for
> Them.

> the power IS the people,
> and
> the New World Order gang operates in great fear
> that sufficient numbers may
> awaken to that fact.

> Do not be afraid.
> Eat your fear.
> Fuel your love.

http://lovechao.tribe.net/

> Spread

> Love,

> james
>
> Ps. Search find the books they are being given
> Out all over the world.

free humans? Yes this can.

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>
>
>
> To view this listing, click here:
> portland.tribe.net/event/35186d09-db7b-
> 46bf-8450-1db3f5915bb2

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 2 replies

New to group -- Reading marilyn stokstad's book

2005-02-02T07:24:48Z

Hi all,

I'm currently reading marilyn stokstad's book on art history. I'm only in the begining of the chapter on Roman and Etruscan art and find it fascinating. Has anybody else read this book or know other good ones like it?

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 6 replies

Pre-Raphaelite Tribe starting

2005-01-07T19:20:40Z

I am trying to start a new Tribe devoted to the Pre-Raphaelites (can't believe one doesn't exist already!) If interested, please join!

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 1 reply

Return of Classicism?

2004-12-14T08:32:58Z

I had a discusion about this recently in a seminar.

Since the early 1900's, the art world has progressed toward abstract symbolism. Now, artists usually don't even paint, but are more comfortable making graphic-based works dealing with personal or socio-political issues (or are left to the viewers). It's become expected, so if there is any sort of "rebellion" against the status quo, it would have to be a return of more traditional media. I have much mroe to say on the matter, but for now, I'll just get the conversation started.

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 15 replies

MOMA buys Duccio Madonna for $45,000,000

2004-11-12T02:13:41Z

New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art has apparently made it's most expensive purchase ever, acquiring a tiny Duccio Madonna and Child, for a price between $45,000,000 and $50,000,000.00 (MOMA won't confirm the exact price.) The Madonna and Child, generally known as the Stoclet Madonna (although the Met, for some ungodly reason, has decided to name it the "Stroganoff Madonna" after an early owner) is the last known work by Duccio still in private hands.

You can read all about the purchase and the painting here (NY Times requires registration and login): http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/10/arts/design/10pain.html

and here:
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=6775701
(the Reuters link includes a full picture of the painting, including the including the "illusionistic parapet" referred to in the NY Times article above.)

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 6 replies

Shroud of Turin

2004-11-11T17:58:05Z

Avoiding a religious debate as much as possible, what are some of your thoughts on this?

Years ago, it was carbon dated and revealed to be a counterfeit from the Middle Ages. This makes sense considering people did this sort of thing with fake icons (like, say, St. John's toenail clippings) in order to get pilgrims to come to their cathedrals and give them money.
The counter-argument here is that since the shroud was burnt in a fire, and the portion of the shroud that was dated was a burnt section, the carbon-dating would reveal the date of the fire instead. I'm not sure baout this one since I'm not as up to snuff on carbon dating as I'd like to be.
THEN, we have other tests that have been run on the thing. The scientists who looked at it found traces of seeds that are common in Jerusalem, not Turin. There is also the fact that the image turned out to be a 3D image similar to computer imaging today.
Of course, there's the argument against that, which is that the image is actually of Da Vinci, who constructed a very early photography method. Of course, there's never been proof of Da Vinci ever building any of his machines. His weapon and bridge designs were used by the Burges and other famailies for their military, but were never built by Leonardo himself. I also don't know if he made any designs for photography. Can anyone shed some light on this?
And finally, we have another interesting tid-bit of information: the nail wounds are in the right location. Anyone who has seen religious artwork from this period know that the nail wounds of Christ are traditionally in the palm. The only problem is that the Romans nailed people at the wrists when they were crucified. These wounds are at the wrist. I think there are some arguments suggesting the shroud to have been made in Jerusalem by Christians living under the Roman Empire. Anyway, discuss.

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 0 replies

Competative or not?

2004-09-20T00:49:00Z

Since many of you actually have a career in art history, I was wondering what your opinions are on whther or not it's a competative field? I know there's a demand for art historians, but at the same, it's rarely chosen as a major (at my university, there are only two of us... one of us graduates in Dec. and I'm graduating in May). Anyway, dicuss.

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 7 replies

Dr. No's Munch Collection

2004-08-24T18:24:10Z

The 'Scream' thread is getting long, mostly because I pasted a whole news story into it.

Did anyone see 'Nightline' last night? It was all about the Oslo theft, The Gardener museum, and the black market for stolen art...

Where does it go? one of the panelists on the show said that there aren't really secret collectors of stolen art (such as Dr. No)... and he's implied that the planners of the heist were low-level thugs engaging in the heist for status...

Isn't there a da Vinci that vanished for hundreds of years? I wonder if these paintings will vanish until all of us are long gone, and there's a new generation of art market... but how would that benefit the thieves?

oh... one more thing about the duchamp readymade that was stolen from the MoMA... the museum blamed it on its own security, ultimately. they were in heated labor negotiations at the time with the museum, and though no one was ever charged, the security staff was scapegoated. I was reminded of that by one of the art heist experts said most museum thefts are inside jobs...

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 3 replies

Good/Bad Artist movies

2004-08-17T19:45:25Z

There are a ton of movies out there about artists, so I was wondering if anyone would like to write some reviews of biographical movies about artists, good or bad? I don't have time for any reviews right now, but I'll be giving some tomorrow, probably.

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 12 replies

Artists you want/don't want to meet

2004-07-07T19:11:45Z

I believe the title explains it all, but if need be, I shall reiterate. ;)

Artist I want to meet: He's a modern artist named Twins Seven-Seven. He's from Nigeria and is quite possibly the most interesting human being who has ever lived. His style blends modern Cubism with Nigerian folk art, but that's honestly not the only reason I want to meet him. The guy has also been a politician, business man, club owner, journalist, poet, singer, philosopher, holy man, and is even a tribal prince. He's been married and/or arrested multiple times, often after simply falling into situations (for instanc,e he met one of his wives while pretending to be a police officer in order to avoid an ex-wife... and he was sub sequentially arrested). Aside from his so-odd-it-should-be-a-fictious-character life, he has lived in Nigeria and has had to endure hardships that are hard to imagine, yet he is a verty optimistic person, which is admirable.

Artist I would least like to meet: This is hard, actually. Many artists are known to be less than social from Michelangelo to Degas. If I had ot choose, though, it would probably be Caravaggio. He was not only a pompus ass, but he was also very violent. He was knwon for beating people up he didn't like (often hitting them from behind and high-tailing ti outta there). Eventually, he even killed a man. I LOVE his art, but I couldn't stand to be around the guy.

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 21 replies

Anyone know of a woman artist ...

2004-07-03T03:52:41Z

from 1500-1860 who depicted some sort of human cruelty or tragedy?
this has to be a secular work in any medium, I've already done abit of research but so far the closest I've come is Elizabeth Butler's "The Remnants of an Army" but its late by 20 years... any suggestions? thanks

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 7 replies

Lee Bonecou

2004-06-25T03:27:31Z

Went to Chicago and the Museum of Contemporary Art last week to see their retrospecitve of Lee Bontecou. It was a delightful show! I was thrilled to see some new works from an old favorite of mine. I know the show is heading on the road afte May 31st-- Its highly recommended. There's a photo from the show up on my blog (blog.magicfishpress.com).

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 2 replies

Jewish artwork

2004-06-18T01:02:24Z

I'm doing an independant study about this next semester, because I was shocked at how little it's study (at least in my coursework). Anyway, I thought it'd be a nice topic and if anyone has any helpful info, I'd appreciate it.

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 0 replies

Representation of Africans

2004-06-17T22:56:11Z

Hello!
I'm new to the tribe. I am not trained as an art historian. I teach surveys in african american history and would like to incorporate a thread of art history in my classes.
Can you suggest good examples and analysis of representations of africans, african americans, slaves and free people in art historiography? I'm interested in european representations of african descendent people as well as art by them in any media.
Thank you very much!

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 8 replies

a good book/perspective on art his/her story.....

2004-05-08T23:35:12Z

IT is called "The transformative vision,
Reflections on the nature and history of human expression" by
Jose Arguelles

Highly recomended!!!

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 0 replies

what makes art Art?

2004-05-08T19:56:53Z

this whole discussion of underrated art, visual culture v. Art is fascinating. The thread is getting long, so I thought maybe a new one might be good.

I should mention that I am not really an art historian, just a consumer of culture. for the sake of argument, i have no authority other than that of a warm body in a gallery.

it seems almost impossible to define what is and isn't art, as that very question has been on of the primary ones that art has been asking itself, at least since marcel duchamp. or perhaps he serves as a good example because he was so witty in addressing the question.

but what is art to you?

to me, i think the whole experience that exists in the human connection is a huge part of it. the experience of discusing what i hated as much what i loved. knowing that there have been countless others who have had similar, intensely moving experiences in the same deserted gallery spaces where time sort of stops.

and the fact that the whole world of art can be an elaborate ruse where no meaning is stable, no definition or consensus of meaning exists beyong your present company or moment. no rule exists that can't be flaunted with the right poise.

ok. i sound like an idiot, but whatever, i am an idiot.

art is the antithesis of rigidity.

what is it to you?

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 15 replies

Underrated art

2004-05-03T02:41:46Z

We have a topic about art we hate, but hwo about art we love that don't get enough respect? Here are some of my picks.

Comic book art - They were one of the major inspirations of pop art and has some stylistic ties to grpahic desgin and Japanese woodblock prints, but has yet to be fully realized in art history. There is a vast amount of different styles going from realism to the abstract. Comics have been around since the beginning of the twentieth century and has evolved through many different periods. For some reason, it is rarely studied and is usually looked down upon.

Norman Rockwell - If this man lived in Italy during a few hundred years ago, I could easily see him as one of the great Renissance or Baroque artists. His works are natural, yet somehow idealized. His compositions are brilliant and he can incorporate a great sense of dynamism when he wanted to. Because of the time period he's from, his work is not seen as classicisized, but as sentimental. I think another reason he is over-looked is because he is highly celebrated by the American public. The way the art feild is now, they hate anything that the public can have access to, basically. Sure the masses usually have poor taste, but not all the time. Even your average redneck can appreciate the High Renissance as much as Rockwell, so why isn't this guy given more credit?

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 27 replies

Art you love to hate...

2004-04-23T18:03:44Z

My top ten:

1. Christian Art; (I know, there wouldn't have BEEN any art in the last 1700 years without it... I actually talked to someone today who believes this... yeesh)

2. Woman made art prior to 1870... actually I hate that there is a basic absence of it, I guess all that wasted talent was used to make clothes and raise children. Not Fair and Not Cool. This means that Half of the artistic output of 50% of the population (of our western culture) for 2000 years and more has succumbed either to moths or old age.

3. 1970's style minimalist artists like Judd trying to "de-mystify the artist." The reasons for this kind art are as dead as the reasons behind the Punk movement. Just like the "Neo-Punk" thing, its a bit sad and empty. Also, Welcome to capitalism guys, we only do things if we stand to gain something. If your artistic theory holds water, why should anyone spend years of their life creating art if officially ANYONE can do art (and not buy art :).?

4. Maybe this should be further down the list but: Michelangelo's sistine chapel. Come on. It's an impressively big and complex work and impressively illusionistic, but geez, he sure got lax on the realism. Compare this to his earlier work, the Deposition sculpture he did for instance. From this and other pieces, we can infer that he understood how the body was put together, so why are the feminine Sybils not... feminine? Go ahead, say "mannerism"... we all know the real reason.

5. Fete Gallant; Come ON people, get a JOB!

6. Group of Seven; Maybe it's just because I grew up here, but Come ON!? boring. Wow! trees! and mountains! wooo-hooo a deer! I can understand the forestless Brits liking it, and I understand that there isnt much out on the frontier of North America to paint besides landscapes... oh nevermind, I answered my own question.

7. Nudes. Both sexes. Not that I mind the modern asthetic, but you can actually trace the progress of the "Physical Ideal"
on a graph marked from Practical to Decorative. Today's ideal is the one displayed most often, check it in any TV commercial or magazine.

8. Rubens. This is what will happen to people who go on the atkins diet.

9. Most Roman art. The stuff that we see now is kind of like mixed medium collage isn't it?

10. Found art has been starting to erk me lately. Art comes by artifice. Artifice as defined: Contrive, created, not natural. Not Artifice: "Now I'm gong to LIE and call this Art!"

Once again, I do really like alot of things, its just that there seem to be less that I dont like. ie: shorter list :)

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 18 replies

favorite era, school, style, etc?

2004-03-02T06:23:32Z

i have many favorite all across schools, styles- i'll just list a few to start:
caravagio
el greco (esp "portrait of hortensio felix paravicino"-- i uploaded image)
dutch/flemish painting

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 17 replies

jobs?

2004-02-21T22:14:38Z

well... I graduted with an AA in Art History a few months ago, does anyone know any art related jobs I can look into? All I can find want BAs.

any help is appreciated :)

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 7 replies

Greetings from Berkeley

2004-02-18T23:05:27Z

Studied art history in college at UCSD with an emphasis on Ancient art. Am intrigued and in love with many art forms and strive to keep myself in the know, if you'll have me!
Deirdre

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 9 replies

PleaseAddToThePhotoAlbum

2004-02-07T00:40:30Z

Hey everybody! I added some art and architecture stuff (I like) to the photo album but I would love to see what everyone else likes too. Also if you have some artwork that you've created and would like the tribe to see it, please post up a picture of it also. Share & Exchange ******;)

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 13 replies

art brut- "outsider" art- etc.

2004-01-24T18:11:32Z

i've just started an interdisciplinary MA program - i can design my own curriculum.
i want to study art brut (specifically works produced by the mentally ill), but from an art therapy/sociology/psychology standpoint. i also have a keen interest in forensics. i want to blend it all together into a viable degree.
i want to understand the 'why' and the 'how' then learn how to recognize those signs of mental illness in works produced by artists or 'non'-artists (and hopefully the art therapy piece will come in here-- the sticky part is not reading things into art pieces that aren't there) then at some other point 'reverse engineer' work produced by known mentally ill artists, deducing what's going on in their lives and minds, and this is where the forensics part will come in- maybe. i'm still working out how to articulate my ideas in a cohesive proposal for the program- sorry for the rambling.
there's this aspect of art history which just may be a result of popular culture's emphasis on forensics, crime, etc, but think it's been around longer than that- i'm referring to forensic psychology as apllied to artist. remember when folks were trying to determine what mental illness(es) van gogh may have suffered from by looking at changes in his color pallette and brush strokes? (there were theo's writings and other accounts of vincent's behavior, but i'm just talking about the visuals.)

i wanted to get some feedback from you folks.

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 0 replies

Art Deco Computer

2003-12-08T18:46:14Z

This may be somewhat out of the scope of this tribe, but oh well.
I'm currently hate my generic beige computer, and am looking to make an Art Deco one. What I need though is some references. What are some of the "must see" Art Deco objects? Or what design would you think would be a neat influence for this project?

Thanks for any help.

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 10 replies

Sister Wendy

2003-11-22T04:00:31Z

Hey does anyone know if Sister Wendy Beckett has done anything new lately? She's a bit goofy, but has made some pretty good programs.

posted in Art Historians Unite! - 1 reply